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blue2dabone
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 The Consequences of Negativity
« Thread Started on Aug 14, 2006, 7:51am »

NOTE: This thread is likely to wind up in the Hot Tub. I started to put it there initially, but then realized it could always be moved there if it got too heated. I believe this is an important discussion that, if kept on topic, can be a valuable debate, and hiding it in the Hot Tub before it gets "en fuego" would be a cop-out by me. I could always just STHU and not write it if I was all that worried. :-[

Many in here have noted the potential consequences of the strongly negative comments made by some UK fans about coach Tubby Smith. In posts here and here , members have alluded to the consequences of the constant swirl of opposition to Smith in the fan base.

Matt Jones has a thoughtful article over at the KSR blog about how the loud repudiation of Smith is playing out among recruits, and it is not a pretty picture. If what Matt says is true, the "Smith can't recruit" crowd are starting to create a self-fulfilling prophecy of the type UK basketball could surely do without.

I don't believe I can overstate the potential damage to our program if this situation does start to cost us recruits. Even if his detractors are able to force Smith to leave, the damage from the way the process is playing out will likely take years to repair.

Unfortunately, we cannot just tell the Smith detractors to shut up and go away. They are entitled to express their opinion, and they may not agree with me about the potential damage to the program. To the contrary, many Smith opponents have posted opinions suggesting the damage to the program will be greater if Smith stays. Both opinions are highly speculative, so it's impossible to say who is right, or rather, more right than wrong. So despite Jones' dire warnings, I expect the best those of us who share his concerns can do is to stand in there and argue our side, remaining polite and ethical and hopeful.

Jones also attacks pseudonymous posters in his article, a position I don't agree with. If someone posts a comment opposing Smith without dishonest, defamatory rhetoric, I can't see why psuedonymity or even anonymity is a problem. One of the beauties of the Internet is to allow people to make comments without fear of retribution. Concomitant with that privilege is the ethical responsibility to not to make false, defamatory or slanderous comments. When a pseudonymous poster makes an unethical or defamatory comment, they should be taken to task by all. In here, I'd say that is pretty much the rule. It probably isn't elsewhere, but there you go.

I will say that unethical behavior by Smith detractors is a serious problem. Some of the bile I have seen spewed around the Internet is intolerable, not because it expresses a valid opinion (to the extent they do so), but because lies, unsourced rumors and baseless accusations are part and parcel of some of them. This sort of bilge is not the behavior of a civilized fan base, and it's time we all took umbrage to those who do this. In my view, it has become a situation where "He who is silent is understood to consent". It is time for us to refuse to consent to invective, innuendo and lies. But at the same time, we must respect honest opinions ethically expressed, even when we profoundly disagree.
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 Re: The Consequences of Negativity
« Reply #1 on Aug 14, 2006, 8:35am »

Sorry if those posts bothered you but I was stating a FACT about what Miller has PUBLICALLY said. Like it or not. Makes no difference to the EDman. ED 8-) After rereading this thread I dont think 2dabone realizises that ED is a Staunch supporter of Coach Smith. And of course I am in total agreement with Matt Jones article.
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blue2dabone
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 Re: The Consequences of Negativity
« Reply #2 on Aug 14, 2006, 10:15am »


Quote:
Sorry if those posts bothered you but I was stating a FACT about what Miller has PUBLICALLY said. Like it or not. Makes no difference to the EDman. ED 8-) After rereading this thread I dont think 2dabone realizises that ED is a Staunch supporter of Coach Smith. And of course I am in total agreement with Matt Jones article.


Ed, I was not commenting on your post except as an example of what Jones was saying - that recruits appear to have been affected by Smith's detractors. Your point was well made, and I understood it perfectly. I do realize you are a supporter of coach Smith. ;)
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 Re: The Consequences of Negativity
« Reply #3 on Aug 14, 2006, 10:48am »

Best article he's written yet!
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 Re: The Consequences of Negativity
« Reply #4 on Aug 14, 2006, 5:23pm »

Which came first? The chicken or the egg? Tubby's poor job of recruiting or the fans bitching about it? IMO Excuses for a poor job.
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 Re: The Consequences of Negativity
« Reply #5 on Aug 14, 2006, 5:42pm »


Quote:
Which came first? The chicken or the egg? Tubby's poor job of recruiting or the fans bitching about it? IMO Excuses for a poor job.

Well, let's see. I have been a member of this board since December, 2002. The bitching was going on full force then, with Smith the coach for what, 4.5 years? My assumption is that it was going on well before that.

For my money it was the fans bitching.
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 Re: The Consequences of Negativity
« Reply #6 on Aug 14, 2006, 5:50pm »


Quote:

Quote:
Which came first? The chicken or the egg? Tubby's poor job of recruiting or the fans bitching about it? IMO Excuses for a poor job.

Well, let's see. I have been a member of this board since December, 2002. The bitching was going on full force then, with Smith the coach for what, 4.5 years? My assumption is that it was going on well before that.

For my money it was the fans bitching.



If that is true, why are we just now saying the negativity is affecting the recruiting.......1 or 2 very good classes by tubbi, several slightly above average, and 2 pure stinkers in the last 4 years.

Did you ever watch the Saul led offense? If that didn't warrant bitching I don't know what would. May have had something to do with the early unhappiness with Tubby along with not getting an adequate PG for several years.
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 Re: The Consequences of Negativity
« Reply #7 on Aug 14, 2006, 5:54pm »

Just for the record, my true name is Mitch Cundiff and I live in Russellville, KY.

No psuedonym needed for "this detractor". :D
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 Re: The Consequences of Negativity
« Reply #8 on Aug 14, 2006, 6:02pm »


Quote:

If that is true, why are we just now saying the negativity is affecting the recruiting.......1 or 2 very good classes by tubbi, several slightly above average, and 2 pure stinkers in the last 4 years.

Perhaps because the recruits themselves are suggesting that it is?

Quote:

Did you ever watch the Saul led offense? If that didn't warrant bitching I don't know what would. May have had something to do with the early unhappiness with Tubby along with not getting an adequate PG for several years.

Yes, and I think the bitching about Saul was overdone and ridiculous, as was the nepotistic innuendo. Just the beginning of a long, unbroken line of unethical bilge that some felt had to be added to legititmate criticism.
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 Re: The Consequences of Negativity
« Reply #9 on Aug 14, 2006, 6:13pm »

Bottom line is: Tubby needs to do some major recruiting or he will be gone in two years. the program and the fans will demand this. i hate to say that because i like Tubby. he can coach. we know that. recruiting is so important though.
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 Re: The Consequences of Negativity
« Reply #10 on Aug 14, 2006, 6:24pm »


Quote:

Quote:

If that is true, why are we just now saying the negativity is affecting the recruiting.......1 or 2 very good classes by tubbi, several slightly above average, and 2 pure stinkers in the last 4 years.

Perhaps because the recruits themselves are suggesting that it is?

Quote:

Did you ever watch the Saul led offense? If that didn't warrant bitching I don't know what would. May have had something to do with the early unhappiness with Tubby along with not getting an adequate PG for several years.

Yes, and I think the bitching about Saul was overdone and ridiculous, as was the nepotistic innuendo. Just the beginning of a long, unbroken line of unethical bilge that some felt had to be added to legititmate criticism.


Are you saying Saul was a UK quality point guard worthy of playing 30mpg? I might agree he was an adequate benchwarmer but if you think he was good starting point guard material, I think you are inhaling your own bilge.
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 Re: The Consequences of Negativity
« Reply #11 on Aug 14, 2006, 6:41pm »


Quote:
Which came first? The chicken or the egg? Tubby's poor job of recruiting or the fans bitching about it? IMO Excuses for a poor job.



Let's be real and admit that some were bitchin as soon as he was hired.
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 Re: The Consequences of Negativity
« Reply #12 on Aug 14, 2006, 6:52pm »


Quote:

Quote:
Which came first? The chicken or the egg? Tubby's poor job of recruiting or the fans bitching about it? IMO Excuses for a poor job.



Let's be real and admit that some were bitchin as soon as he was hired.


You guys act like Tubby was the only coach who ever took any criticism at UK. Hate to tell you, but there were those who bitched when Hall was hired, when Sutton was hired, and when Pitino was hired.
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 Re: The Consequences of Negativity
« Reply #13 on Aug 14, 2006, 7:16pm »

I personally like(d) Saul Smith. He finished at UK in the top 10 in recorded assists. Not too shabby for a guy who had to pass to what some have "warranted as bad recruits."
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 Re: The Consequences of Negativity
« Reply #14 on Aug 14, 2006, 8:23pm »

Has nothing to do with liking Saul Smith...... he was a hustler, can't deny him that.....just think he was very limited talent wise.....was 1 of if not the worst shooting guards %wise in UK history and had no penetration skills. Hustle, yes! Talent, very debateable.
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