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Post by TedRay80 on Nov 21, 2002 16:36:23 GMT -5
Thought this was interesting to see... I took a look at teams' total Sagarin rankings from the 1998-99 season through last season to see who has done well over these past 4 years (the 4 years that everyone keeps referring to as the doomsday years of basketball for UK).
Also note: I didn't include 1997-98 because I'm a nice guy (and because it wasn't available), but I would imagine those numbers would help UK's stats out quite a bit. Anyways, here are the top 7 teams of the last 4 years and their total from the rankings.
Duke 7 Stanford 30 Cincinnati 38 Maryland 38 Florida 39 Arizona 43 Kentucky 44
And if you include 1997-98, I'd say UK pulls easily into the top 4 or 5. These are the HORRIBLE Tubby years that people are referring to!! I don't hear anyone calling for the heads of Lute Olsen or Gary Williams, or even Tom Izzo (who finished BEHIND UK). If #7 over a 4-year period or #4 over a 5-year period leaves people distraught, that's a bit ridiculous. Agree or disagree? Should we axe any coach that can't be #1 over any series of 4 years?? Hint: Even Coach K wouldn't last too long with those standards--remember the mid-90's??
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Post by cataholic on Nov 21, 2002 18:07:49 GMT -5
Your crazy!! You like 10 losses a year, fine root for another team that thinks 10 losses is an excellent season. I tell you what stat boy, go back and do ANY 4 of Pitinos years and see where they rank. Or Eddie suttons 4 years. ANY UK coach, and I guarntee Tubbys will be the worst. Lets talk about Tubby being the FIRST COACH IN UK HISTORY to have back-to-back-to-back 10 loss seasons. Pull any stat you want, but when it comes down to it, Tubby may be a good coach..........For Tulsa or UGA, but he IS NOT UK CALIBER.
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Post by KY Kid on Nov 21, 2002 18:49:14 GMT -5
Nice post TedRay80. I'm just glad UK's down years are still among the college basketball elite. Over the last 4 or 5 years I'd still say we are among the ten best teams in that time. Granted I haven't been happy with everything, but hey I have faith we'll improve. Then ten losses don't make me happy, however, I believe it would have happened before if UK would have played more games "back in the day".
Eddie Sutton, CAH? You may have forgot he lost 19 games in one year.
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Post by TexasBlue on Nov 21, 2002 19:55:26 GMT -5
The slow starts the last few years really suck. This year does seem any different. Tubby will be in the NBA within the next four years in my opinion. This years recruiting class will be the turning point for Tubby. I will be pulling for big season, but with the new Prez, not from Kentucky, a 10 loss season will be considered a good season. Hell, at football games the Prez will does not want to hear "My Old Kentucky Home" before kickoff. Tradition is gone with this program. Surprised coming from me, well, I lived through the Jerry Jones mockerery in Dallas. Hey man, leave Dallas out of any response her.
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Post by Administrator on Nov 21, 2002 20:47:18 GMT -5
Here's a flip-side from the stat puller. National Titles Rupp - 4 Hall - 1 Pitino - 1 Smith - 1 Back to back to back 10 loss seasons. Guilty. I'll give you that one. First coach in NCAA history (I think) to win a National Title his first year. Smith Stats can be anything we want them to be. Kinda like statistics. We can't change the past so why don't we try to look forward to the future. Let's get a few more games under our belt before we throw out the white towel. What do you say?
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Post by TexasBlue on Nov 21, 2002 21:10:09 GMT -5
Come together they will. It will be a very interesting and fun season. GO WILDCATS! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by TedRay80 on Nov 21, 2002 21:22:09 GMT -5
but with the new Prez, not from Kentucky, a 10 loss season will be considered a good season. Hell, at football games the Prez will does not want to hear "My Old Kentucky Home" before kickoff. Tradition is gone with this program. When you say new Prez, do you mean new AD or new President? Lee Todd is certainly a Kentucky native. He graduated from UK's undergrad and then came back to teach here, not to mention living in Lexington for about the past 15 years. Now if you're talking about the AD, Barnhart, you're right. Either way, "My Old Kentucky Home" started playing before kickoff under whose tenure?? Larry Ivy's. Before that, it had always been at the end of games. I wouldn't call a couple years much of a tradition. Just FWIW
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Post by TexasBlue on Nov 21, 2002 22:29:18 GMT -5
Hey TedRay80, thank you, I stand corrected, I was in reference to AD Mr. Barnhart. The first Kentucky football game I had the pleasure of attending was five years ago, at begining of season, and I thought for sure I first got to listen to "My old Kentucky Home". I could be wrong, maybe I am thinking of the first time I heard the song, well you can't blame me on that one. "Not much of a tradition" ? In reference to "my Old Kentucky Home" I am most likely wrong again, but I base that on from where I sit. Most people I have talked to about it seem disappointed that it will not be played at the begining of each game, like they were proud to hear it as soon as it started. Always thought it had been played for years at the start of each game, just seemed right.
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Post by TedRay80 on Nov 22, 2002 0:14:17 GMT -5
I can't be sure I don't remember hearing it before games, either. I'm basing that on what they were saying on the radio. Pretty sure it was Tim Woodburn who said they've only been playing it before the games for a couple years.
I can understand Barnhart's point of view, though--hard to get too hyped up about a game with a song playing that sounds more appropriate for a wedding or a funeral. It's not exactly "We Will Rock You."
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Post by Tummygoat on Nov 22, 2002 6:52:24 GMT -5
Very good Teddy. Just goes to show WHY Tubby hasnt been fired and why he won't be fired.
I like CAH am not too keen on Tubby really and don't think he's the right man for this program, but in all fairness this season will be a good cursor to Tubby's true coaching abilities. Resorting to racism, loss records (while not including the wins), and recruiting are in my opinion not the ways one should judge Tubby's coaching performance. Getting 20 wins each season, making a push to at least the Sweet Sixteen in all but one season and 3 tournament and 4 SEC Championships is pretty darn good. The only stat that really concerns me is that it's been a gradual and continous decline of everything each year, but still nothing alarming. The state of Kentucky basketball is still fine (it may not be 1995 or 1998, but its still no late 80's basketball). Pitino spoiled UK fans and we are just brought back to reality that when coaching changes are made, you can't expect to be at the top all the time. Tubby's a good coach. He's not the best, but he's one of the better coaches. The notion that Kentucky should be the premier program in the nation year in and year out is absurd because we went what 20 years without a championship? And we've gone 4 years since our last one with all that has been mentioned above. I just don't understand why some people get so miffed about things. It's true that eventually I see Tubby not getting 20 wins and things could get bad, but in no way do I think that moment is here. I almost fear that these "Dark Days" Kentucky is going through would be the ones that lie ahead if Tubby were to leave, because there really is no coach out there that is hands above the rest that really is any better than Tubby and would be a "premier" coach. I likely would see something happen to us with what happened to UNC. I much more rather keep the man here for a few more years under the same conditions and hope he starts improving instead of slowing down the program and then hopefully by the end of his contract, there will be a proven coach and new leader to come to Kentucky.
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Post by cataholic on Nov 22, 2002 8:58:47 GMT -5
I've not used any racist remarks. I'm stating what I feel to be a fact. I've never said I don't like Tubby because he's black, I've never said I want him gone because he's black. I feel like he's getting over BECAUSE he's black. Now, a point I'd like to bring up. Bernadette Maddox, is the womens coach and she's black. UK womens b-ball has been in the cellar for years. So WHY is she still the head coach? They aren't steadily getting better, so whats the reasoning behind her still having her job?? I think the answer is UK doesn't want the "RACE CARD" played on them when they go to fire a black coach. Look at Nolan Richardson, he said if Arkansas would buyout his contract he'd leave. They bought it out, and he STILL threw up the race card to the media. I'm not a racist,(3 mixed god-children will attest to that). I just call it like I see it.
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Post by TexasBlue on Nov 22, 2002 9:13:36 GMT -5
And I don't like anybody very much!!!!
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Post by cataholic on Nov 22, 2002 9:20:18 GMT -5
And I don't like anybody very much!!!! Hey pal, if anybody you don't like is black your a racist.
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Post by TexasBlue on Nov 22, 2002 10:03:52 GMT -5
Man o man o man. LOL I have been told, just yesterday, that I was ugly and my mom dresses me funny, that I had bad breath and stinky feet, and now my wife now thinks I eat to much. But this, I will stay in a state of denial and just go fishing. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Tummygoat on Nov 22, 2002 11:10:23 GMT -5
Bernadette is still here because our athletic dept under Newton and Ivy didnt care about the women's team. If you ever went to a woman's game you'd see how much thought and effort was put into them...none.
Maybe now Barnhart will actually consider making women's basketball a sport.
You're on a role there Joe.
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