whah
Leading Scorer
I'm everything that hollywood wants to be...
Posts: 233
|
Post by whah on Jan 10, 2006 12:16:13 GMT -5
Hate Tubby, I do hate that he's driving us into mediocrity.
Ive said it before, and I'll say it again, Tubby is a poormans denny crum "latter years"
I do not hate the man, but I choose to live in reality,
and accept nothing short of excellence.
Just felt this needed saying.
|
|
|
|
Post by BlueCat on Jan 10, 2006 12:44:02 GMT -5
whah, I certainly respect your opinion, and I really feel that most all that are categorized as "Haters" are not haters at all. I realize that most really feel that Tubby is a good (not great) coach and a great person, but just do not feel that Tubby is going to take this team to the level that we expect on a year to year basis.
You say that you chose to live in reality by pointing out what you feel to be factual evidence that the program is on the decline under Tubby. You may certainly be correct in your assesment of the state of the program, but that also gives the impression that you feel those that disagree are not living in reality, and you are could certainly be right.
That being said I think there are many that keep an optimistic view of things that would argue that it is you and others that expect a final four every year that are not living in reality. No program, and no team has ever had a team that went to the final four every season or had a team that was in contention for a final four berth every year. To expect that every season is unrealistic and therefore probably not living in reality.
I think we All hope for a team that competes at that level every season but it's not going to happen.
Blindly supporting Tubby or any coach isn't living in reality and neither is having expectations to see our team in the final four every season when it has never been done.
Our expectations are high and they should be, but I think we can have high expectations while allowing for the fact that our program is made up of humans that have faults and no matter who the coach is we will have down times, but we will always resurface.
We all want what's best for the program, we just differ in our opinions as to what that is.
|
|
|
|
Post by BGCatfan on Jan 10, 2006 13:35:14 GMT -5
"No program, and no team has ever had a team that went to the final four every season or had a team that was in contention for a final four berth every year."
We were at that level in the '90s, and I would argue that today's elite programs -- Puke, UConn, and whatever team Roy Williams is coaching -- are at that level. They are in contention for the Final Four every season. We are no longer in that elite group. Somehow, those programs have surpassed us, and they have done it primarily by beating us in recruiting. Those elite programs never "settle" for the Sheray Thomases and Bobby Perrys of the world, unless they need players for "mop-up time". We need to be asking how that has happened. Is Tubby simply not a good recruiter? Has his style of play made UK less attractive? We need to find the answers, and we need to correct the problems.
|
|
|
|
Post by BlueCat on Jan 10, 2006 13:49:13 GMT -5
My post said "every" season. Not just 3, 6, 9 or 12 years. Where was UNC just three years ago? The only program remotely close to being in contention every year for the past few years is Duke, and even they didn't make it to the elite 8 last year. They weren't even picked to finish any higher than they did. Oh and let's not forget a flameout in 2003 in the sweet 16 as a 3 seed. Pretty elite huh? That tells me that they were had some down years in two of the last three seasons. It happens. that's reality. Yes, we were at that level in the nineties for 3 to 4 years. We've been at that level for a couple seasons recently under Tubby too things just didn't work out as well as we had hoped they would, but we certainly had the capability to make it to the final four. Had we not been capable we wouldn't have taken Mich. St. to double overtime before losing. If you want to base your reality by what other teams have done while we were idle then you can go back to the days of Joe B Hall and say that we were not in contention while UL was winning a couple of championships or UNC, or Duke or Mich St. All of these teams won championships in eras other than Tubby Smiths era and UK wasn't in contention for championships at those times either. If we are going to talk about being in contention every year then let's at least look at every year. Should we have had a final four berth in the past 8 seasons? Sure we should, but sometimes things go against you even when you are the better team. That IMO has happened to us twice in the past few years. No program will ever be on top every year. Not Duke, not Carolina, not anyone. How many times did Roy Williams flame out in tournament before finally winning won at UNC. I guess Kansas fans were glad to see him leave.  |
|
|
|
Post by BlueCat on Jan 10, 2006 13:59:40 GMT -5
Bill Self came into Kansas with a Senior team that had been to two final fours and was knocked out of the tournament in the first round by Bucknell. I didn't hear people calling for his resignation, and I haven't heard a lot since then. Kansas is one of those elite clubs, but they too have their ups and downs like 9 years betwee final fours for Roy Williams between 93 and 2002.
Let's be realistic.
|
|
|
|
Post by kentubbybasketball on Jan 10, 2006 16:44:05 GMT -5
How many times has Roy Williams lost in the second round and Sweet 16 with multiple NBA players? Who knocked Roy out in 1999 by the way?
Jim Calhoun's Huskies just lost in the second round last year, and didn't even make the tournament in 2001. He's only been to one extra final four than Tubby.
Coach K has only been to one final four in the past 4 seasons. Hardly every season. Those three other seasons... Sweet 16 flameouts (if you want to call it that).
I can get down on Jim Boheim, Rick Pitino, and all the others too if I need to, but I won't. Like BC said "let's be realistic).
|
|
|
|
Post by 2dope on Jan 10, 2006 23:16:22 GMT -5
AAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
|
|
|
|
Post by Bailey on Jan 11, 2006 8:53:30 GMT -5
BC
You ask where was NC 3 years ago? Good question. My question is what did NC do about their loosing? They fired their coach and hired another that won the National Championship last year and kicked our butts on our home court this year. In other words they did something about their problem. Are we going to do something about our problem or set by and take more of the same?
Bailey
|
|
|
|
Post by BlueCat on Jan 11, 2006 10:08:41 GMT -5
Good question.
|
|
|
|
Post by rajon4rondo on Jan 11, 2006 12:14:02 GMT -5
bailey, i would NEVER want to do what unc did to matt doherty. doherty inheirited a mess of a program from bill guthridge and inheirently received all of the blame for their woes. then he goes out and gets an all-world recruiting class and is shown the door in favor of an old alum before he gets to see them through. but i will say that Tubby inheirited a good program and has been here for nearly a decade so any troubles we have are on him. if these troubles continue and if a certain old alum coach(riles) took over the team, i probably wouldn't mind.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bailey on Jan 11, 2006 16:12:21 GMT -5
I agree Rajon
I was trying to make a point that inorder for us to progress we need to get rid of Tubby.
Bailey
|
|
|
|
Post by Babyboomer on Jan 11, 2006 19:49:34 GMT -5
whah, I certainly respect your opinion, and I really feel that most all that are categorized as "Haters" are not haters at all. I realize that most really feel that Tubby is a good (not great) coach and a great person, but just do not feel that Tubby is going to take this team to the level that we expect on a year to year basis. You say that you chose to live in reality by pointing out what you feel to be factual evidence that the program is on the decline under Tubby. You may certainly be correct in your assesment of the state of the program, but that also gives the impression that you feel those that disagree are not living in reality, and you are could certainly be right. That being said I think there are many that keep an optimistic view of things that would argue that it is you and others that expect a final four every year that are not living in reality. No program, and no team has ever had a team that went to the final four every season or had a team that was in contention for a final four berth every year. To expect that every season is unrealistic and therefore probably not living in reality. I think we All hope for a team that competes at that level every season but it's not going to happen. Blindly supporting Tubby or any coach isn't living in reality and neither is having expectations to see our team in the final four every season when it has never been done. Our expectations are high and they should be, but I think we can have high expectations while allowing for the fact that our program is made up of humans that have faults and no matter who the coach is we will have down times, but we will always resurface. We all want what's best for the program, we just differ in our opinions as to what that is.  Very well said. |
|
|
|
Post by apocalypse on Jan 11, 2006 22:33:48 GMT -5
The basic problem is RECRUITING. Look at the talent on the bench in the senior class, junior class and so forth. His only good class is the Soph.
We do have some good talent coming next year, but he had better get another big body, someone who can chew gum and dribble at the same time.
Being realistic, I cannot argue over his success for the past 10 years. I also understand that recruits are fickle. They will tell you anything that means absolutly nothing.
We must recruit. Talent will make everyone happy. As much as I hate watching this team struggle, I will still support them 100%. That includes Tubby.
We will rise again to the final four, and another championship. It may not be this year or next, but we will be back. After all, its KENTUCKY. enough said
|
|
whah
Leading Scorer
I'm everything that hollywood wants to be...
Posts: 233
|
Post by whah on Jan 12, 2006 0:38:09 GMT -5
one cant realistically expect a final 4 or championship every year, but I expect to be in the hunt for one...
some expect too much, some accept to little.
|
|
|
|
Post by BlueCat on Jan 12, 2006 7:23:03 GMT -5
Very good point and well taken. ;D
|
|
