Who's opinion holds water?

[MyBlueHeaven]

Time after time, many of us, who are not in support of Coach Smith, have posted links to articles written by national sports writers and analysists who echo the same thoughts about Coach Smith "moving on".

These comments are generally posh-poshed at and dismissed by saying things like, "what does that I guy know" or "you don't have to be smart to say things like that", etc.

So people, I ask you simply.......Who would it take to make comments insisting that Coach Smith should coach elsewhere? Who would have to come out against Coach Smith for people to take things seriously.....other nationally respected coaches......former players.......former assistant coaches?

To the Coach Smith supporters, I invite your honest comments.

Who would it take?

[tcot]

That is a great question. Most coaches will stick together. Most of the major media won't say anything negative for fear of the race card.

Really the facts are out there. When player's being recruited are saying they don't like the style. CBS is running the Lofton clip about no respect from his home state and a UK Jersey appears behind him.... the media knows what we know they are very " suttle " on how they are handling it.

Heck Mitch may be to. Who knows. I am not a Smith supporter, but this is a great question.

[blue2dabone]

xusybbut said:

Time after time, many of us, who are not in support of Coach Smith, have posted links to articles written by national sports writers and analysists who echo the same thoughts about Coach Smith "moving on".

These comments are generally posh-poshed at and dismissed by saying things like, "what does that I guy know" or "you don't have to be smart to say things like that", etc.

So people, I ask you simply.......Who would it take to make comments insisting that Coach Smith should coach elsewhere? Who would have to come out against Coach Smith for people to take things seriously.....other nationally respected coaches......former players.......former assistant coaches?

To the Coach Smith supporters, I invite your honest comments.

Who would it take?

My honest comment is this:

The only opinions that matter in this situation is that of the UK Athletic Director and the President of the University of Kentucky. All the rest are there for people to point to as validation for their own opinions.

When we see sportswriters jumping on one side of the issue or the other, I see lots of people trumping up fallacies such as argumentum ad populum. For myself, I don't need other people's opinions to validate my own, and if 90% of the people in the country hold an opinion contrary to mine, it concerns me not one whit as long as I can defend it reasonably.

In other words, there is nobody out there qualified to hold an opinion that would change my mind, except possibly Mitch Barnhart. Any well-reasoned opinion could cause me to evaluate my thinking, as it should any person, but so far I believe my conclusions to be as reasonable as any.

And in case you missed it, my conclusion is this. Let our athletic and university administration do their job. That's why we hired them. They have forgotten more about this situation in the last 5 minutes than any sports journalist or coach outside the University of Kentucky will ever know.

[meeksforthree]

I'm not completely sure that the problem doesn't stretch all the way to Mitch Barnhart. I spoke with C.M Newton a lot two summers ago and asked him what he thought about that season and he immediately told me we didn't have enough talent. At that time i thought we could be one of the best teams in the country with everyone returning, but apparently he knew something that most UK fans including me didn't know about the way UK was heading. I'm not saying that he's the only one for the job but I think that he has an understanding of the game that most AD's don't and Barny hasn't proved me wrong yet!!!

[BlueCat]

Well I think many of the fans have already spoken and it's fallen on deaf ears or so it appears. The one group that I haven't heard say it's time for Smith to are the players either former or current. I think that would have a large effect on how the Smith supporters in the fanbase view the situation.

It will IMO be the fans that influence whether he stays or goes in the long run.

Certainly a growing number of sports writers around the country saying so will also make a difference.

[tcot]

I agree Bluecat. I still think the players are NOT going to say anything negative about Smith. Why would they Smith is a Great person. He never treated them badly. Now if you ask some of the transfers..... it may be a different story. It is all in who they ask. Again Great question.

[blue2dabone]

I found a very interesting paragraph in this post by Matt Jones that I must have missed the other day that is directly relevant to this topic. Your mileage may vary.

3) Couple of words on the continued obsession over the various national media members’ comments about the status of Tubby Smith. Simply put, regardless of whether their opinion is pro-Tubby (a la Dan Patrick) or anti-Tubby (a la Colin Cowherd), the opinions hold one common chord…..they are made out of ignorance. If you have watched every Kentucky game this year (as I am sure you have), read this blog, follow the newspaper, etc, you know more about the state of the program than ANY national media member. This is no knock on them, but they sacrifice depth for breadth. Thus they are speaking in generalities…..generalities that they know little about. When Scoop Jackson says the chances of Tubby coming back are “1 in a billion”, he is guessing…..when Dan Patrick says recruiting is down, I would challenge him to name one recruit UK signed this year or last. They simply dont know. When a college basketball announcer (like Bilas, Packer, Raftery, etc) says something, I will listen. But your general sports talk person knows as much about the situation as I would commenting on whether Dan Hawkins is getting it done with Colorado football…..i.e. very little. Listen to the opinions if you wish, but just because they are spouted by people with a platform, doesnt mean they are informed (as many would argue is true about me on the radio

[tcot]

it does.... Kind of like.... It is all in who you ask. NICE.

[MyBlueHeaven]

Would anyone honor Coach Eddie Fogler's views as being more than "generalities that they know little about"? If so, then I invite you to listen to what he has said the past few weeks about the Coach Smith situation on Nashville Sports Talk 104.5.............would you think that he had any alterior motives for his negative views of the current UK coaching style and recruiting?

[blue2dabone]

xusybbut said:

Would anyone honor Coach Eddie Fogler's views as being more than "generalities that they know little about"? If so, then I invite you to listen to what he has said the past few weeks about the Coach Smith situation on Nashville Sports Talk 104.5.............would you think that he had any alterior motives for his negative views of the current UK coaching style and recruiting?

Fine. But if you are going to give him credit, don't you have to give the same credit to those coaches who have said things like:
Jay Wright:

"I don't think I could ever imagine what it is like in Kentucky to go through that," Wright said Thursday. "I feel for him. I don't think there's anybody in the country better than Tubby Smith."

Bill Self:

"I look at Tubby's record and 22-7 or 22-8 in the NCAA Tournament at Kentucky, he's won so many league championships and tournament championships and they are a No. 1 seed most of the time and then one year they are an eight seed and all of the sudden it isn't working anymore? It still works," Self said. "Sometimes teams just don't make shots. Sometimes teams get bad breaks. That's part of it. But Tubby's tough and I'm sure he deals with (the pressure) in a very good way. This is the profession we chose, it's not going away."

Kevin Stallings:

"To get them to buy in, to get them to accept roles is unbelievably difficult," said Vanderbilt Coach Kevin Stallings, who formerly worked as an assistant at Kansas. "And (Smith) gets it done year in and year out. Any disenchantment or dissatisfaction that anybody would have with the job he's done is crazy."

Rick Pitino:

"Tubby Smith has absolutely no chance, zero chance, of being replaced," Pitino said on "Mike & Mike in the Morning." "He has (had) a great tenure at the University of Kentucky. He represents the university in a light we all want to see … . He has class. He makes his kids get an education. He teaches them correctly."

Billy Donovan:

"There's always going to be somebody that's upset, unsatisfied, unhappy or bothered," he said. "There's an old saying that you can't keep everybody happy. Tubby's done a wonderful job with his team. (Four) years ago they were 16-0 in the league, they were the best team in the country.

I know there are others, but my time to do Google searches is limited.

Now, I'm not saying Fogler is wrong and all the other coaches who have defended Smith are right. In fact, I am not suggesting anyone is right or wrong. What I am wondering is, why does Fogler's opinion carry any more weight than Bill Self's, or Jay Wright's?

You could make an argument that since Pitino and Donovan were previous associates, their opinion carries less weight, but you can't so easily dismiss them when they are part of a virtual chorus.

As I have said many times, truth does not come from consensus, and even if every coach believed as Pitino does and Fogler was the lone voice in the wilderness, I wouldn't condemn him for holding his opinion, nor say he is wrong. My point is, though, that his opinion doesn't hold one bit more weight, objectively, than any of the others.

[MyBlueHeaven]

All moot now.....

[Forrest4Three]

Tubby is history!!!

CELEBRATE BABY!