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Post by kentubbybasketball on May 15, 2005 11:13:43 GMT -5
Bobby Knight must suck then. He gets to the Sweet 16 once every ten years. So, is he all of a sudden just a good coach..... no!
We know he's great. There are other things that go into the equation of who a great coach is. Anybody that shows me they can coach a team to a national championship is great. Not too many people can do it. There's only 12 active coaches with it I think. Tubby is one of those. If it's all about the 6 games in March, why do we waste our time with the previous 30 games all the way in November?
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Post by kj on May 15, 2005 11:22:51 GMT -5
Bobby Knight must suck then. He gets to the Sweet 16 once every ten years. So, is he all of a sudden just a good coach..... no! We know he's great. There are other things that go into the equation of who a great coach is. Anybody that shows me they can coach a team to a national championship is great. Not too many people can do it. There's only 12 active coaches with it I think. Tubby is one of those. If it's all about the 6 games in March, why do we waste our time with the previous 30 games all the way in November? Pretty simple really. The 30 previous games are to attain an advantageous position for those final 6. Course a #1 seed does not always translate to success but it should give you the easiest road to success.
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Post by katman on May 15, 2005 11:46:58 GMT -5
Kentubby, I think Tubby Smith agrees with me on this one. That is why he takes chances on getting the players that may bolt early.. He has already proven he can win the SEC and win 25 + games "without" Burger boys. Tubby is a solid coach. But he agrees with needing to hoist banners, that is why he takes guys like Morris and Crawford. He knows what we know, that ultimate success is measured by NCAA success and the regular season is for earning the seeding to give a program the best advantage to accomplish NCAA success.
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Post by CardHater on May 15, 2005 12:41:25 GMT -5
Everybody harps on recruiting. Who is recruiting better than Tubby. Well let's see. Teams like Duke, Florida, Kansas, and North Carolina are the only teams that have recruited better than UK since Tubby has been here. Duke signs three to four McDonald's All-Americans every year. Billy D has been whooping the rest of the SEC in recruiting for years. Kansas and North Carolina have also had at least equal if not slightly better recruits than UK.
None of these teams has been substantially better than us over the last eight years, and we have won just as many or more titles as all of these schools in the Tubby Smith era.
If we win a title next year will Tubby all of a sudden be a great coach or would he have been a great coach all along. The logic is just not there.
As for the better basketball argument. Most who think that the nasketball we play is not as good under Tubby I would say do not know enough about basketball. Do we score as much? No. But watching the guys move the basketball on offense to find the open shot is a beautiful thing. Watching the help defense that we can play is awesome. Adn the way that we can almost always double team the ball handler in a half court sitaution is unbeleiveable. At the end of the game when almost every team shoots under forty percent it is not by accident.
I will say it again if you are a Tubby hater you do not appreciate what we have. there is nobody in the game that is better, and only a couple of guys are even his equal.
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Post by wyldcatzrool on May 15, 2005 13:00:28 GMT -5
excellent post cardhater... I LIKE IT! GO BIG BLUE! ;D ;D
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Post by katman on May 15, 2005 13:07:10 GMT -5
By far I am not a Tubby Hater. I support Tubby Smith and have taken a lot of heat for doing so over the last few years. Nothing wrong with taking a long hard look at why we cant seem to get over the NCAA FF hump. I hope we do next year and it all becomes a moot point. If we dont AGAIN though, then many will wonder about it, not just ones who have asked tough questions in the past.
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Post by golfnsr on May 15, 2005 13:18:48 GMT -5
"But watching the guys move the basketball on offense to find the open shot is a beautiful thing" - posts cardhater. You've got to be kidding about Kentucky's offense in the last few years unless you like to watch ball rotation with the 3 outside guys and no movement on the inside and then a quick shot with the shot clock expiring!! You're certainly correct that the Cats' defense is second to none.
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Post by kentubbybasketball on May 15, 2005 14:50:52 GMT -5
Everybody harps on recruiting. Who is recruiting better than Tubby. Well let's see. Teams like Duke, Florida, Kansas, and North Carolina are the only teams that have recruited better than UK since Tubby has been here. Duke signs three to four McDonald's All-Americans every year. Billy D has been whooping the rest of the SEC in recruiting for years. Kansas and North Carolina have also had at least equal if not slightly better recruits than UK. None of these teams has been substantially better than us over the last eight years, and we have won just as many or more titles as all of these schools in the Tubby Smith era. If we win a title next year will Tubby all of a sudden be a great coach or would he have been a great coach all along. The logic is just not there. As for the better basketball argument. Most who think that the nasketball we play is not as good under Tubby I would say do not know enough about basketball. Do we score as much? No. But watching the guys move the basketball on offense to find the open shot is a beautiful thing. Watching the help defense that we can play is awesome. Adn the way that we can almost always double team the ball handler in a half court sitaution is unbeleiveable. At the end of the game when almost every team shoots under forty percent it is not by accident. I will say it again if you are a Tubby hater you do not appreciate what we have. there is nobody in the game that is better, and only a couple of guys are even his equal. Amazingly accurate post. Tubby even has a winning record against all those programs at Kentucky, except for Duke and he's only 1-2 against Duke (one game went to OT). Billy D said it best, Tubby has been outrecruiting (or outcoaching) everybody. How is Tubby gonna be a great coach all of a sudden if he wins another national title. I guess in that 40 minutes of game time in the national title game, he somehow goes from being good to great. That's illogical. And, Katman, where are the Crawfords and Morrises in this class? I don't see any changes in Tubby's recruiting now from a few years ago. As Tubby said, "recruiting has always gone well."
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Post by katman on May 15, 2005 15:26:38 GMT -5
Everybody harps on recruiting. Who is recruiting better than Tubby. Well let's see. Teams like Duke, Florida, Kansas, and North Carolina are the only teams that have recruited better than UK since Tubby has been here. Duke signs three to four McDonald's All-Americans every year. Billy D has been whooping the rest of the SEC in recruiting for years. Kansas and North Carolina have also had at least equal if not slightly better recruits than UK. None of these teams has been substantially better than us over the last eight years, and we have won just as many or more titles as all of these schools in the Tubby Smith era. If we win a title next year will Tubby all of a sudden be a great coach or would he have been a great coach all along. The logic is just not there. As for the better basketball argument. Most who think that the nasketball we play is not as good under Tubby I would say do not know enough about basketball. Do we score as much? No. But watching the guys move the basketball on offense to find the open shot is a beautiful thing. Watching the help defense that we can play is awesome. Adn the way that we can almost always double team the ball handler in a half court sitaution is unbeleiveable. At the end of the game when almost every team shoots under forty percent it is not by accident. I will say it again if you are a Tubby hater you do not appreciate what we have. there is nobody in the game that is better, and only a couple of guys are even his equal. Amazingly accurate post. Tubby even has a winning record against all those programs at Kentucky, except for Duke and he's only 1-2 against Duke (one game went to OT). Billy D said it best, Tubby has been outrecruiting (or outcoaching) everybody. How is Tubby gonna be a great coach all of a sudden if he wins another national title. I guess in that 40 minutes of game time in the national title game, he somehow goes from being good to great. That's illogical. And, Katman, where are the Crawfords and Morrises in this class? I don't see any changes in Tubby's recruiting now from a few years ago. As Tubby said, "recruiting has always gone well." Like I said, I know Tubby is a good coach, I have preached this for years now. But at UK, we demand final fours or at least a style that incites excitement. I love your enthusiasm and share it mostly. I have watched every UK coach in action from Rupp on to Smith. Tubby has "Some skills" but can he build a team from the ground up to a Final 4? He never has and hes pushing 54. Yep, 1998 was a masterful coaching job. The team really came together, but we have not yet matched the offensive scoring output of that team since and we have had 7 years to do so. Legitimate question I feel asking about why we havent matched the offensive output of 1998 in the last 7 years. You said yourself that recruiting has gone well....so what is it?
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Post by golfnsr on May 15, 2005 17:34:54 GMT -5
It's the lack of a team offensive concept that bothers me in Tubby Ball. Under Tubby we have gotten away with wins when our outside shooting was working, with offensive rebounding put backs prior to this last year, some fast breaks off defensive rebounds or defensive steals, combos like Hayes and Daniels were pretty good at working off one another, and a few other individual situations. However, we do not have an offense in place with good offensive movement, proper spacing, consistent ball movement inside AT THE CORRECT TIME when our big guys are posting up, etc. It just seems like as good as Tubby's defensive schemes are the offense is mediocre in comparison. We can generally get through good winning percentages during the regular season with this situation but the lack of a consistent and lethal offense has kept us from winning over other top ranked teams in the Big Dance and getting to the Final Four or beyond under Tubby since 1998.
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Post by vivalaUK on May 15, 2005 20:06:59 GMT -5
hmm, i would have to say that i do. for one i think that that year with bogans really was our best year in a long time. and definetly better than 98. go back and look ot how badly we beat some those teams. be won what 26 games in a row. we won like 12 games in a row by over 10 points, most were over 20. not to mention 1 by 62. and the sec had 5 ranked teams. the only reason they didnt get to the final 4 was becasue our leader and best player was hurt and marquette played the game of a life time. we have had one of the best 8 teams in the NATION three years in a row. who can name the last time we didnt get into the tournament. look at all our sec titles. weve been UNLUCKY in the tournament for a while. honestly the tournament is a whole lot of luck. who playes really good for 6 little games. it is for that reason that the nba has a bunch of 7 game series to decide who goes on. i mean i dont think many people would say that syracuse was the best team in the nation a couple of years ago. you all take advantage of how good UK is. think about what it would be like to be a fan of one of those teams who celebrates everytime there team gets in the touney. think about how it would be to be a UCLA fan. in my opinion all of the people who are complaining just need to be quiet, sit back, and evjoy kentucky win at th game of basketball. and most importanly, realize that thats all it is. a game!
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Post by vivalaUK on May 15, 2005 20:16:52 GMT -5
and to add to that, i dont know how you can expect us to get to the final for next year. we lost of leader, best rebounder and third best scorer in 1 person. and we also lost our leading scorer, and our second leading rebounder in another person. plus we dont have much coming in. who will rebound next year. you all thought we were bad at rebounding this year. we have like 5 rebounds a game coming back. morris averages only 4 a game last year. if your center cant rebound a ton it is hard to play with three guards (cus i am saying crawford at only 6 "4" is a guard.) and a 6 "8", 210 pound SF. i cant even imagine whatll happen if morris leaves. i think we all need to take some pressure of Tubby. sorry, not to be down or negative or anything. i am just trying to be honest.
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Post by katman on May 16, 2005 5:06:57 GMT -5
So have we conceded next year as well? This is pathetic...If us fans think we cant do it. How do you think that translates to the players.
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Post by CardHater on May 16, 2005 9:53:36 GMT -5
I do not think that we can't do it. I know that we can do it. As a matter of fact I know that we will do it, and probably soon. We have goos teams. Some years we have the best team. That said the best team does not always win the tourney. Sometimes the hot team wins. Sometimes the lucky team wins. Sometimes the best team wins. To be honest this year we went to the elite eight playing some of the worst ball all year long. This team never got any chemistry going, and was playing worse at the end of the year. To many roosters in the hen house, and not a team leader between them.
As for cracking on our ball movement for the last few years. You must be watching a different team than me. The two years preceeding with Daniels and Estill in the post playing effectively our ball movement on offense was spectacular. However with the weakest 6'11" 250 pounds of post player in history manning the blocks for us this year things got a little stagnant. You cannot blame Randolph Morris's ineffectiveness on Tubby however, since he has made much less talented post players much much better. A fact that mr. Morris should be considering more heavily.
Everybody who has hated will have to eat their words everyone who has praised will not, and that is a guarentee. We will win it again, we always have.
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Post by Riley on May 16, 2005 10:07:18 GMT -5
So have we conceded next year as well? This is pathetic...If us fans think we cant do it. How do you think that translates to the players. I know of no players that read here and could translate that, do you?
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