Couchfan2
Leading Scorer
a UK fan could never boo #2
Posts: 381
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Post by Couchfan2 on Mar 13, 2005 21:37:08 GMT -5
I would hate to ever start a thread by apologizing but I feel that I need to in this case. for the last 5-6 years I've been watching a UK basketball team that flat out could not shoot the ball. For the life of me I dont know why this has not been fixed by our coaching staff at all. Its not just this years team its been all of our teams since Pitino left. I really hate to say it I honestly do. I could spend alot of time pointing out guys like prince,bogans,fitch,padget,blevins,carrier,azubuike, etc. who were supposed to be hallmark shooters but the lot of them were streaky at best. Before you call me out, Prince and Bogans were not the same players they are now. remember that. This can go on no one elses shoulders but Tubby smith. For the life of me I cannot understand how a player who plays basketball everyday be it in practice or in a game. can shoot as bad as we do. Its not like these guys just gather around once a month. If I played ball 3 times a week I would be automatic. Im not shooting you a line of crap either. I could get out there and shoot better than 30% now and I havent played ball in 2 years. The reason why this is again on Tubby smith is because he either doesnt recruit the right player or work on it enough in drills. I understand that defense is Tubby's cornerstone but shooting is essential to winning as well just ask redick. With that being out of the way I would like to comment on this season in particular because this is the now. In the last two games I saw a UK team that was man handled on the boards. shut down offensively and lackadasical on defense at times. There is no excuse why LSU got 4th 5th and 6th looks on some posessions. I fully expected atleast that much fixed by today. Boy was I wrong. we saw a florida team that out hustled us and just flat out made us look like a joke. The florida defense just dared our POINT GUARD to shoot anywhere from outside the paint. and smothered our best shooter in sparks (and he's no larry bird himself) all 3 of our centers would rather paint each others toe nails than scrap for a rebound and the one guy on the team that shows any heart has to get fouled to hit a lay up or else he cant hit the side of a barn RIGHT UNDER THE BASKET. I love chuck hayes he deserves every accolade he gets but in order to go the nba he better learn to finish around the basket. My father really hit this home to me yesterday while I watched the LSU game. I havent watched a game with my father for 3-4 years until yesterday because he always bashed the cats and he's been a fan since birth just like me. I refused to agree with him about how much our teams have eroded since Pitino left. What he told me finally rang true when he looked at me with about 5 mins left in the second half shortly after we peeled the paint off the ceiling yelling and screaming "Get the Damn rebound guys". He turned to me and said "see these SOB's arent even fun to watch anymore" It hurt my feelings so much because he was speaking the truth. Let me put this all in perspective by saying Florida players CALLED US OUT and we still didnt show up to play. If you arent going to come out and leave everything on the floor in the conferance Tournament championship game than nothing will ever get you riled up. This Team has only showed emotion in two halves this season being the 1st half of hte UT game friday and the 2nd half of the UL game. notice how I said HALVES. I'm sorry If Im stepping on everyones toes here but Im tired of acting like average is good enough for me. I am going to die a UK fan and will gladly go down with the ship I just think that as fans we deserve better. Again guys I hope you understand where Im coming from. I love kentucky both the state and the team but I gotta call it like I see it or Im not a man of character and no one will value my opinion. It must be march madness because It's march and Im sure as hell mad
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Post by walker34 on Mar 13, 2005 21:48:48 GMT -5
i love uk basketball alwas have always will no matter what but i agree with u Tubby ball never has been or never will be as fun to watch as slick rick ball
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Post by golfnsr on Mar 13, 2005 22:23:37 GMT -5
Seems like quite a few of us have been treading lightly around our true gut feel and feelings.
I really wish that Tubby wasn't such a nice guy with outstanding character. - he really is a fine gentleman.
An outstanding Coach - NO.
The only reason that his record is so good is that he is coaching at the Unversity of Kentucky where we get above average tallent and play an average schedule in a below average power conference.
Well like Couchfan2, I am just sick and tired of the lack of offense and Tubby's ability to take away the natural skills and enthusiasm of Freshmen coming in to the program. - some of their lack of confidence continues way too long.
Why recruit good tallent and then break them and try to rebuild them? - true they need to be taught better defense much of the time coming in but their offensive skills don't have to be degraded.
Our natural shooters become so confused with the lack of offensive schemes, attempts to satisfy Tubby and ineffective substitutionsand roles that they just play confused and tight.
It really surprises me that so many of his supporters are just satisfied with his very good winning % but are not concerned with our inability to compete with the top tier teams at the end of the season - In fact, we are not even getting to play the better teams in that we loose too early in the big dance.
I just wish that Tubby would get some help with the offense and understand that when you have the better tallent you need to play a little more uptempo and be allot more effective in player rotations than rthe simplistic "Hockey Shift Change".
I am concerned as an avid Kentucky Fan that we are stuck in the mud with Tubby's style and in that he wins a good % we are destined to never get that #8 or maybe even back to the Final Four.
BTW, before someone accuses me of being a closet Pitino Fan, I absolutely despise the man. However, there are other top tier programs' Coaches that are effective on both ends of the floor and not just Pitino's style.
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Post by Bailey on Mar 13, 2005 22:44:29 GMT -5
Billy D saw it with his team. He was a one demensional coach (offense). He corrected it and hired a defensive specialist. It worked. They kicked our butts. To bad Tubby can't see the light like Golf said. We need a offense minded coach. You have to score more than 50 points a game to win at the level we want to compete. Next year will be a carbon copy of this year if we don't get a strong power forward that rebounds and scores. It has been a long time since we have been in the Final 4 and that was with Pitino recruits.
Bailey
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Post by Fox on Mar 14, 2005 10:07:47 GMT -5
I'm glad that I am not the only one that is fed up with the style of play. I don't miss Pitino at all. I miss his style of play. It was fun and exciting to watch his teams play. They hustled. They dove after loose balls all over the court. Everyone got to play. Freshman too. 3 point shots in transition. In your face defense, with full court pressure. The point is, that it was EXCITING. In '96, the Cats played LSU at LSU and scored 86 points in the first half. FIRST HALF!! We are lucky to score 86 points once or twice all season. But I have to say that Tubby is a good coach, no doubt. But his half-court offense is just plain out NO FUN. Ho hum pass it around the arc for 30 seconds and jack up some sort of shot that is contested with no one in position for a rebound. EXCITING!! I would also like to point out that Kentucky lost the average attendance title for the first time in about 10 years to Syracuse. We used to avg. around 24,000 for every home game. Now it's 22,000 something and dropping. What does that say??
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Post by 4uktrey on Mar 14, 2005 12:01:36 GMT -5
Your post was WRONG on attendence. IT WAS close to 24,000. Not 22,000. And if those people didnt want to go to the games they need to sell them or give them to I KNOW THERE ARE THOUSANDS who would buy or take those tickets. I blame the people with season tickets for not giving those tickets UP!!!!!ED
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Post by 4uktrey on Mar 14, 2005 12:04:39 GMT -5
I'm glad that I am not the only one that is fed up with the style of play. I don't miss Pitino at all. I miss his style of play. It was fun and exciting to watch his teams play. They hustled. They dove after loose balls all over the court. Everyone got to play. Freshman too. 3 point shots in transition. In your face defense, with full court pressure. The point is, that it was EXCITING. In '96, the Cats played LSU at LSU and scored 86 points in the first half. FIRST HALF!! We are lucky to score 86 points once or twice all season. But I have to say that Tubby is a good coach, no doubt. But his half-court offense is just plain out NO FUN. Ho hum pass it around the arc for 30 seconds and jack up some sort of shot that is contested with no one in position for a rebound. EXCITING!! I would also like to point out that Kentucky lost the average attendance title for the first time in about 10 years to Syracuse. We used to avg. around 24,000 for every home game. Now it's 22,000 something and dropping. What does that say?? Yes it was exciting because you never know if UK was going to LOSE by 50, or LOSE to a lesser team which happened ALOT under Pitinos watch. Not only did it produce a 50pt LOSS, but also losses to MUCH LESSER Opponants!!!Give us a break!!!!
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Post by TexasBlue on Mar 14, 2005 12:11:48 GMT -5
I went to 7 or 8 games this year and Rupp was full every time. I beleive Syracuse has a bigger arena do they not? Just look at the SEC tourney, certainly not a lack of UK fans in Atlanta.
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Post by chewy on Mar 14, 2005 13:47:39 GMT -5
Billy D saw it with his team. He was a one demensional coach (offense). He corrected it and hired a defensive specialist. It worked. They kicked our butts. To bad Tubby can't see the light like Golf said. We need a offense minded coach. You have to score more than 50 points a game to win at the level we want to compete. Next year will be a carbon copy of this year if we don't get a strong power forward that rebounds and scores. It has been a long time since we have been in the Final 4 and that was with Pitino recruits. Bailey I agree about the whole offense thing, but Im tired of hearing about how Tubby won with pitinos recruits, not just for you baily but for many.... if you say that then Roy Williams, Bill Self, and whats his name at Illinois get little no credit for this year.....it may be there 2nd year but the players that are winning for them are the other guys recruits.....do you feel the same about them too??
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Post by kj on Mar 14, 2005 13:49:03 GMT -5
The much maligned Billy D who had lost 8 straight to UK looked at his team and saw something lacking. Hard nosed defense. He taught a bunch of offensive minded players to play D. He beat UK at its own grind it out game this year. He realized a problem and corrected it.
Does Tubby even realize we have a problem? 50 points with the talent UK has is a disgrace. The man bluntly sucks onb the offensive side of the court... We have some majorly rated players at UK during his tenure but we have largely had an offense that was nonexisteant in the half court game.
Nice guy, good representative of the University. Driven or better than a sweet 16 coach? Very questionable.
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Post by UKFAN on Mar 14, 2005 14:47:26 GMT -5
I agree with Couchfan2. I think it took a lot for him to make his post. I think a lot of fans let their love for UK stand in their way of better judgement. I love the Cats with all of my heart and bleed blue when we lose. I hate losing at anything, so I take it really hard when we lose. Always have and always will. Down deep in my heart and mind, I believe that Tubby will never win us another NCAA championship or maybe not even get to the final four if he continues to do what he does now. Donovan saw his shortcomings and got someone to help him with his weak point, defense. His team is playing the best defense since he has been at Florida. Tubby needs to get some flow in the offense against the man to man and have better ball and player movement against the zone. Right now his best offense is transition offense, but as he gets futher in the NCAAs that type of offense produces fewer and fewer points.
Oh by the way ED, Pitino was trying to teach a bunch of new guys a new system that he thought would be successful. In allowing the 50 points to Kansas he took a step backward to be able to take two forwarded. It worked. He proved that he had a successful system. Tubby has yet to prove that on a large scale. Maybe against the cupcakes and a majority of SEC teams but not against the elite teams.
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Post by UKFAN on Mar 14, 2005 14:50:14 GMT -5
kj, as always, you make a great deal of sense.
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Post by Kj with the mid day on Mar 14, 2005 15:11:54 GMT -5
When something is wrong, you fix it. That makes sense. Billy D. saw something wrong for 4 years. What has Tubby seen wrong except a few bad games in the NCAA?
Now that he sees something wrong, perhaps he will fix it. Don't jump the gun so fast just because UF finally beat us, twice. If we meet them again, we thump them.
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Post by 4uktrey on Mar 14, 2005 15:58:54 GMT -5
I agree with Couchfan2. I think it took a lot for him to make his post. I think a lot of fans let their love for UK stand in their way of better judgement. I love the Cats with all of my heart and bleed blue when we lose. I hate losing at anything, so I take it really hard when we lose. Always have and always will. Down deep in my heart and mind, I believe that Tubby will never win us another NCAA championship or maybe not even get to the final four if he continues to do what he does now. Donovan saw his shortcomings and got someone to help him with his weak point, defense. His team is playing the best defense since he has been at Florida. Tubby needs to get some flow in the offense against the man to man and have better ball and player movement against the zone. Right now his best offense is transition offense, but as he gets futher in the NCAAs that type of offense produces fewer and fewer points. Oh by the way ED, Pitino was trying to teach a bunch of new guys a new system that he thought would be successful. In allowing the 50 points to Kansas he took a step backward to be able to take two forwarded. It worked. He proved that he had a successful system. Tubby has yet to prove that on a large scale. Maybe against the cupcakes and a majority of SEC teams but not against the elite teams. So tell me who UK beat that was an ELITE team. Pitino ran from everyone. The schedule that UK played for what about 5 years straight (Top 5 SOS in the NCAA), Pitino would of never played KU, UNC or dUKE. After the 50 pt loss KU was OFF UKs SCHEDULE. Scotts site will show the truth!!!!ED ;D
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Post by golfnsr on Mar 14, 2005 16:19:30 GMT -5
When something is wrong, you fix it. That makes sense. Billy D. saw something wrong for 4 years. What has Tubby seen wrong except a few bad games in the NCAA? Now that he sees something wrong, perhaps he will fix it. Don't jump the gun so fast just because UF finally beat us, twice. If we meet them again, we thump them. There is more wrong than just a few loses this year. The perpetual mediocrity of Kentucky's offense (especially half court) under Tubby has existed every year he has been here and is not only present in our loses but also in many of our mediocre wins against inferior competition. There is no way that we even get back to the Final Four with Tubby's style of play on the offensive end. (I'm not even going to discuss his inability to substitute effectively). Also, I don't believe that this needs to erode into a Tubby versus Pitino argument ( Slick Rick is gone for good and I'm happy for it). - it distracts form the present problem - Tubby's "System" Just look at any of the Programs getting to the Final Four consistently and they have more of an uptempo, multidimentional scheme and they don't throw good defense out the window at the expense of offense. Tubby better get some help on the offensive side of things or the ground swell will continue. - The Kentucky Basketball Program has been and should remain the Premier Program in College Basketball - it is not there right now.
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