Wildcatblue7
Leading Scorer
Home of the Deadskins
Posts: 456
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Post by Wildcatblue7 on Mar 3, 2003 17:48:09 GMT -5
Remember.....the glass is half full, not half empty.
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Post by blue2dabone on Mar 3, 2003 19:09:16 GMT -5
Well, since you like to continually call people like me DETRACTERs TEDDY, let me ask this. ARE YOU happy with what transpired the last THREE YEARS? If so, then you accept mediocrity and I chose NOT to Well, I rather doubt that anyone would choose mediocrity. Sometimes however, mediocrity chooses you. Which of us can say we have never failed, never been mediocre when we thought we should excel? How many of us can claim to have always lived up to expectations and never dissapointed either our loved ones, teammates, or ourselves? Even the most talented among us are mediocre at something. Sometimes we are mediocre at what we love the most until we learn enough about it to become excellent. In Tubby's case, perhaps coaching at Tulsa and Georgia did not sufficiently prepare him for the meat-grinder that is Kentucky basketball. Perhaps even coach K would have handled the pressure of Kentucky with a bowed back and sweaty brow. But no one can say, truly, that they saw this team coming. What has happened this year is astonishing to everyone, especially those who thought they had Kentucky basketball and especially Tubby Smith all figured out. Must be a rude shock to some of them and a wonderful surprise to others. But nobody, not even Tubby's biggest fans, saw this coming. Excellence, it seems, is not talent-dependent. Rather, it is heart dependent. It is determination dependent. Most importantly, it is perseverance dependent.
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Post by KY Kid on Mar 3, 2003 19:45:13 GMT -5
I personally love the way the tradion is being embraced, rather than discarded. As for the past 3 years they are what they are. I don't think about them, because this team right now is keeping me occupied.
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Post by TedRay80 on Mar 3, 2003 20:22:01 GMT -5
Well, since you like to continually call people like me DETRACTERs TEDDY, let me ask this. ARE YOU happy with what transpired the last THREE YEARS? If so, then you accept mediocrity and I chose NOT to Funny how everyone likes to talk about the "last THREE YEARS" like the two before them didn't happen. I'll go ahead and answer your question over Tubby's whole tenure. If UK wins 1 NC, goes to another Elite 8, and goes to 4 Sweet 16's every five years, along with 3 (now 4) SEC championships, I'll "settle" for that. In fact, if Kentucky continually performed at the level they have under Tubby Smith, they would without a doubt be the top basketball program in the nation over the long haul. Especially considering that if we add a sixth year, we add another SEC championship and strong contention for a Final Four or better. I see no mediocrity here. Just totally ridiculous expectations of perfection.
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Post by still_busted on Mar 3, 2003 20:26:06 GMT -5
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Post by TexasBlue on Mar 3, 2003 20:27:39 GMT -5
"the team right now" well said. Nothing like enjoying a National Championship run.
I am sure we will hear about how big of a fluke this season is after we lose the first game NEXT year.
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Post by ChrisR155 on Mar 3, 2003 21:26:01 GMT -5
Busted...the main thing that you keep referring to is the mediocrity of the last three years, and how you aren't able to accept that mediocrity etc...
How many other schools in this nation would KILL for the "mediocrity" that we have achieved in the last 3 years? These three years may be considered somewhat down years in this program, however, can any program expect to continue on an upward incline without any period of downfall? And if these last three years are our only downfall, then I will take that over anything else. To most programs, that "downfall" would be more of a reason to celebrate, rather than complain.
I can't think of any other coach in the nation(that would be willing to come to UK) that would be able to produce anything even equal to this "mediocrity" or better, and there are only a mere few that would possibly do better on a regular basis, but they fall in the category of those that would not be willing to accept the UK coaching job.
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Post by UKFAN on Mar 4, 2003 0:31:47 GMT -5
I don't think anyone can disagree that there has been a marked difference in the way the team has played since the start of the second half of the Vandy game. Why? I am sure there are many different reasons. One is Tubby get rid of some trouble makers and kept Fitch. Another is the different style of defense the Cats are playing now. Tubby has gotten completely away from the "ball line defense". Another is the more wide open offensive game, although Tubby did play more conservative on offense against GA than he has in many a game. Lucky four us Hawkins made some key defensive plays at the right time of the game. Some more are better shot selection, getting the ball inside more, using all of the half court (more shots from the corners). I have been talking about these things for the past 3 years and now Tubby is using them. I am not saying I know more about the game than Tubby, all I am saying is he is doing the right things now and it is paying off. Also, when Rigot was at Hawaii, even though he wasn't the head coach, they were the top team in their conference with an overall record of 27-6 and 15-3 in their conference. This year they are 15-10 and 7-9 in conference play. This year at UK, well you all know that story. IMO, I think Rigot has been a very positive influence on the team. We are doing things this year that we haven't done at Kentucky in years. Coaching contrast, yes I think there has been a big difference in the coaching contrast this year in comparision to Tubby's past years. But hey, he is the head man in charge and deserves all the credit. Also, he must accept all of the blame when things don't go right. I think that is fair, don't you?
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Post by TedRay80 on Mar 4, 2003 0:32:25 GMT -5
THIS is the kind of KENTUCKY basketball that we ALL have grown to ACCEPT and I am sure that those who have embraced mediocrity have NOT liked it one bit more than I have but have chosen instead to remain quiet about it. I am an outspoken person who speaks his mind and that just happens to be MY OPINION. I never suggested that anyone adopt the same attitude I have and I object to anyone suggesting that I adopt to their opinions. You're right, Tom. I'd prefer it if UK won the national championship every year. That's my opinion, and obviously yours, too. The difference is I know it's absolutely ridiculous and unfair to hold anyone to that standard. Hold whatever opinions you want, but be prepared to have them criticized if you're willing to criticize a coach that has outperformed just about everyone else in the nation.
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Post by TedRay80 on Mar 4, 2003 0:42:48 GMT -5
Good points Chris and UKFAN. Chris you'll learn quickly on here that any detractors "don't care about other teams. This is KENTUCKY." That means they expect a championship every season. If they don't get one and don't like the style of play, we have to put up with their whining. Ridiculous? Yes. Inevitable? I'm afraid so.
UKFAN, I think Rigot may have brought some to this team, but I have a hard time believing he's brought as much as some people want to claim. I have yet to hear his name mentioned by a player or Tubby as a significant factor (though I have heard Hobbs' name mentioned--someone who has gotten quite a hard time from the fans.)
The thing that bothers me is that now that UK is playing well, the detractors' criticism is "why didn't we do this earlier?" Seems like Tubby's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. If the team plays poorly, people criticize him. If they play well, they criticize him for not having them do it before! What this boils down to is the fact that REGARDLESS of how well or poorly the team plays, people are going to criticize Tubby. At some point, this has to just be considered a deep-seated bias. Give the guy a break!!
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Post by UKFAN on Mar 4, 2003 1:03:40 GMT -5
I for one am not critizing Tubby, I just think it is a good question. Why didn't we play this style of play earlier? We had the players to do it with. But I am a happy Cat Fan, we have an excellent chance to win the national championship as long as we keep playing defense like we are now and don't get to conservative on the offensive side of the game. This is an excellent uptempo team, IMO, the best in the nation. Tubby, keep the players doing what they are doing now and we will run the table in the SEC and win the national championship. Don't let them backslide. Don't let them slack off when they get that big lead. Keep the pressure on. Do that and we will win it all.
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Post by Administrator on Mar 4, 2003 1:13:27 GMT -5
Win or lose, this is a team game and EVERYONE shares the responsibilities. Some lead, some follow and some observe.
Call me crazy but I think the difference in this years team compared to many of the past (even beyond 3 years) is the fact that EVERYONE knows and has accepted their roles.
In another thread the question was asked, how does this team rank when compared to the teams of the past (individual talent).
I'll just chime in here.
I don't think I'd rank this team in the top 5....maybe not the top 7 and I don't think its inaccurate.
This TEAM imo is the best we've seen in quite a few years and I'm INCLUDING the 96 squad. The 96 squad had MUCH more individual talent but the 03 squad plays the game better.
To parapharase Coach Smith - this in an ordinary group doing extraordinary things.
I couldn't agree more. As I've said in the past...the only thing separtating this very good team from becoming a great team is consistent outside shooting.
Many commentators have stated the obvious....when Kentucky is able to make the outside shot, they're almost unbeatable.
So true.
I don't think we'll truly understand just what a team we're seeing this year for at least a year or two. We'll all be looking back and talking about this squad for years to come. We have something special here and I'll go as far as to say that the 03 team is my favorite of the last 15 years.
JMO
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Post by blue2dabone on Mar 4, 2003 7:33:32 GMT -5
I don't think we'll truly understand just what a team we're seeing this year for at least a year or two. We'll all be looking back and talking about this squad for years to come. We have something special here and I'll go as far as to say that the 03 team is my favorite of the last 15 years. JMO Spam, I couldn't agree more. IMO, the reason this team is so good is the buy-in by the players of Tubby's system. I also suspect that Tubby has learned a thing or two about his coaching style from last year - it is markedly different. I am not talking about the style of basketball - that has been totally consistent throughout. I am talking about the way he coaches the players. Whether that is strictly a function of the players or a change in his personal style is unknowable by such as we, but I strongly suspect it is some of both. Either way, the results have been dramatic success. No one can argue with force that this team is as talented as '96 or '97. It is also doubtful that they are as talented as '98, but that is actually arguable. But one thing all three of those great teams have had is lots of seniors and juniors. Which makes me want to posit that perhaps it takes several years for kids mature enough to totally buy in to the system. The '98 team only had one year of Smith, but that team was dominated by seniors who knew that they had to play as a team to be successful. Perhaps Tubby deserves some criticism for not being able to teach this fundamental concept successfully every year. Of course, we all know teaching is a two way street - both teacher and student have to agree to do their part. I think it is fair to say that that connection hasn't always been made for whatever reason, and I personally suspect that most of the fault for that has not been with Smith. We measure a program by its results. While the results from the 3 years before this have always been excellent, they have not met expectations given the level of talent on the team and the profile of the program. This year, the situation is dramatically reversed - the performance has dramatically exceeded expectations. The question is, can we bottle this magic for future teams? The answer - too early to tell. But Big Blue Hope Springs Eternal !!!
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Post by still_busted on Mar 4, 2003 10:09:41 GMT -5
To answer you first ChrisR155, like tedray80 said, I do not support any other team. AND, AGAIN the REASON I keep bring up the last three years is because they ARE THERE and if anyone chooses to ignore them then they have a closed mind about the TRADITION UK has. I don't see anyone FORGETTING all the BANNERS hanging in Rupp, so why forget what has happened at OUR school since 1999? Mediocrity is something that UK has NEVER embellished as we WERE the TEAM OF THE DECADE and you don't have that honor bestowed on you playing mediocre basketball, you have to EARN it and we did by playing championship calibre ball AND, your damned right I expect a championship EVERY year. However, I am MORE than willing to accept DEFEAT IF we play like we WANT it all and that is something we are doing right now. I understand it is not going to happen but there is NOTHING wrong with expecting it. DID UCLA EXPECT IT? ? , NO, absolutly NOT! THIS====At some point, this has to just be considered a deep-seated bias. Give the guy a break!! IS a BULLSHI& remark tedray80. I believe you KNOW what I AM, so BIASED is something I will absolutly NOT take from you or anyone. It appears as if you are the BIASED one here by bring a RACE issue up. I don't know your color and personaly could not care less what you or anyone else's color is. You are not Johnny Cochran in disguise are you?
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Post by TedRay80 on Mar 4, 2003 11:29:26 GMT -5
It appears as if you are the BIASED one here by bring a RACE issue up. Actually, bias could mean plenty of things other than racial bias. If that's what you think it means in your case, you'll have to deal with that yourself. A bias is "an inclination of temperament or outlook; especially : a personal and sometimes unreasoned judgment." During good times or bad, you have displayed the same temperament and, in my opinion, unreasoned judgment against Tubby. This would be considered a bias, regardless of race. FYI, I'm not Johnny Cochran.
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